TOPSHELF RECORDS

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saalt
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:54 am

Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by saalt »

In the midst of the battle between CMHWAK and TOPSHELF, it seems both parties stopped fighting and began making out. All the while making weird pokes at each other out of spite.

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dannzac
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Location: Southern California

Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by dannzac »

ITT:
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brianutatx
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Location: Austin TX

Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by brianutatx »

This will be my last post in this thread. I'm having to put all of my attention on this thread instead: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2559

But I will leave you with my email response to Kevin. It is kinda long but you can read it all here: http://textuploader.com/?p=6&id=B6ppP

Spoiler alert I talk about garfield posters and Pantera.
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viva_h8
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:13 pm

Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by viva_h8 »

this place is worse than b9. topshelf is coo, nothing but nice dudes.

DIY OR CRY

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kyeospeaks
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by kyeospeaks »

since kevin asked to post his outreach email to me and i decided to post my reply, i feel it's only appropriate that i finish the narrative that i started. here are the other emails exchanged.
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from kevin, in response to my reply.

Hey dude. Thanks for the response. I just wanted to clarify: None of those points were targeted specifically to you. So if it seems they're off the mark in addressing anything you've said, specifically, well, they probably are — given the context. Thanks and sorry for the confusion. I appreciated your input and feedback.

1.) Ads? Well, OK! I asked Mitch's family if I could post a photo of the cashed check and post how much money we had all raised for them and for all the expenses their family incurred as I thought it'd make everyone who helped out or pitched in happy that we could all come together to make a difference for them. They seemed hesitant and it was clear they felt uncomfortable with that so we never did. I would have liked the transparency as well, but alas.

2.) What would you prefer something be called over a family? To announce something via a headline? "Hey guys, we're gonna work with this band — we're NOT signing them OK??? — but like, they're also now maybe kinda grouped together with the rest of the bands we've worked with... soooorrta like a big family". Semantics, man. Like, really not a big deal.

3.) The tumblr thing was, of course, a generalization. I too follow a couple hundred tumblogs with relevant, insightful and engaging original content. That said, even the creators of tumblr themselves acknowledge that they set out to do something different than just create a blogging platform. It's more modular and ready-to-go than a traditional blog. Reblogging is a large part of that. I see no reason not to have meaningful content interspersed with reblogged content.

That point of view is very obviously larger than a population of one. This thread alone is making fun of more than a few of those kids (earlier pages). Ya know, the posers who buy and where our shirts? Next...

6.) I don't need to elaborate that we don't "sign" bands. I answered the question. This point is just fishing where there's no fish. For the sake of transparency, we have made contracts with some bands and have nothing at all in place with others. No bands are bound to us for anything beyond the one release that both parties have agreed to do together, though. And they're free to do whatever they please with other material or other parties. When you say "major label" it is obvious to me that you have no idea what you are talking about — I mean that as politely as I possibly can. I don't aspire to be a "major". Not a goal at all. That's not even, like, a "thing" that's even possible anyway. I'd very much just like to hang out and do what I like with my close friends and run a sustainable business that helps and benefits all parties involved. Neat.

7.) I don't live in any of those scenes! WHY or HOW can I pretend to be able to post about those? I post about shows in other areas regularly, but that's about the gist of it. I couldn't do something like that justice. What we run is a RECORD LABEL, not a ZINE. The two can be combined, sure. Why not do it yourself since waving that flag's so important to you and I'm obviously not doing a good enough job.

8.) This basically continues where 7 leaves off... but yeah, I can ~feel~ the sarcasm here. We sometimes do this but It's not my job, obligation or responsibility — and Topshelf isn't always the correct platform — to promote bands or scenes that A.) I am not as familiar with and B.) we don't work with in any capacity. It just confuses people. Someone in this thread thought Dads was on our label, even. You guys want me posting about the Austin scene and tainting For Want Of's cred?!?!?! Right? Who wants that. Lemme stick to what I know, sheesh. I post about non-Topshelf bands, happenings, scenes, etc. ALL THE TIME from my personal tumblr and twitter. I keep the two separate for a reason.

9.) Correct.

10.) Also wasn't addressed to you, so yeah.

12.) Noted. I had no way of finding your email (banned, remember?).

13.) Totally. Likewise. Cheers.

-kev

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kyeospeaks
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by kyeospeaks »

my response
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1. Thank you for sharing that bit of information that you probably have never posted for the public. To be very honest and as respectful as I can, I am very cynical about compilation records that are produced around a person's death. Not once did I ever mean to say that what you do is wrong or of no worth. Mitchell Dubey was a dear friend of yours and I don't doubt your motivations, or any of the bands involved. No. My opinion is a not a personal attack on Topshelf.

2. Are you really asking me to suggest to you a substitute for the word "family", as you use it in the context of your label? I am not trying to tell you what to do but only shared my thoughts on that word and how a DIY label uses it. I guess you are right, that "family" would be a good strategic word to use to lump 'em all together. It's not a big deal but I had to point out how productive you've been at extending your family because you don't seem to really notice that you are.

3. Yes, it was a generalization and those kind of statements can be extremely inappropriate and inaccurate. I'm not interested in talking about how Tumblr is used or about it's potentials. About your awesome impact on new listeners of music, I didn't make a claim that that certain POV is only yours. "Probably" is the key word and I used it deliberately. Once again, it's cool that you think your involvement and presence is introducing young people to music. I didn't make fun of any poser kids. Only dweebs.

6. Hey, I'm not purposely looking to find faults with Topshelf. I haven't really made any accusations against you. No. I appreciate this dialogue because I am able to find out more the things I have questioned about your label. I may be less knowlegable on the dealings of "major labels" and that may somehow seem obvious when analyzed by your great business sense, but again, I was sharing my impression of Topshelf. Thank you for clarifying. We can probably end up discussing contracts from here and how I think they aren't needed at all within DIY punk but I can only guess that our views on that will contrast and may never align with each another. I can't tell you for certain what constitues a "major label" but I believe that DIY punk doesn't need to create legal obligations between participants. I don't have to validate my experience or networking ties to realize that the more projects I take on as the years pass, I come across practices that I am absolutely not interested in.
I like to hang out as well. Perhaps we'll hang out one day.

7. Alright, I think this may be the most important point of discussion. I don't expect you to care or even notice regional scenes but I think local scenes are the most important support group and network for any band, especially for the less popular and younger bands. You're not required to be interested or look up those communities that breed and foster the bands that you join to your family but I notice that it seems your attention is constantly on your family. I get that. It's very appropriate.
Please don't tell me that you run a label and not a zine. I am aware. It's also not a very good argument since most zines created aren't fanzines in the first place. I also have put out records and do mail-order but I don't wish to focus on the record label/distribution aspect of it. I don't want my projects built upon a business model. I get very excited and do try to ask bands about their friends' bands and their city. The context and grassroots activity is important. I speak about that regularly with friends but you've made me think. I can always do a better job.

8. You're not obligated or responsible to do anything. You can do whatever you want. My response to point 7 extends to this one.

12. I didn't realize that until you told me. I really think it's bullshit that you are banned and can't answer your critics. I felt like many people in thread were throwing very concrete claims about Topshelf but not really backing themselves up or were even completely honest about how they felt. I want to be honest and I also want to be skeptical. I think I do a fairly decent job at that. I hope all these responses help make the intentions of my original postings clear. I didn't think I would end up thinking about what I think about your label today but I had to respond to your very emotional email that you sent to my band.

- Mark

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kyeospeaks
Posts: 199
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by kyeospeaks »

kevin's last response
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For sure, dude. I would have chosen a more personal means of communication were it at my disposal, but yeah. Anyhow. Thanks for the dialogue.

I don't think I can properly or effectively put into words what I want to about DIY and my place or observed non-place in it, how that relates to your thoughts on it and what mine actually even are. What I will say is that I think it stems from doing something you love, have passion for and generating a sense of community that stems from that. I'll leave that at that and try and establish no further connections — I agree with your thoughts on the topic as well.

Topshelf is a business and, as such, it keeps a roof over my head and food in my fridge. It helps support the bands we work with and helps get the word out about the goings-on of the label and its roster. If I don't treat it with at least some kind of a business mentality then I'm looking at moving into my parents basement and defaulting on some college loans sooner than later. Not to mention letting down the people closest to me.

We never used contracts before and for the same reasons you mentioned. I really didn't see a point. Why do I need a legally binding agreement with my friends? Or with peers? Or with people with ideals cut from the same cloth. It seems pointless. But it's a business now. I won't elaborate on the finer points of any of that. But yeah. It's as cut and dry a decision as that for me. Where we differ and begin to fail to see eye to eye (which is totally fine) is that Topshelf is a small business — owned and run completely and totally by three people who call it their "job" every day of the week — and what you have chosen to do are two very different things operating under a different mantra. I'm not knocking anything you had to say, but there's obvious differences between these two things. That isn't to say I don't "get" or "support" where you're coming from — it just means a business can't exist within that same plane.

I probably wouldn't have posted more anyway. I get real "my post count and obscure band knowledge dick is bigger than yours" vibes — which is, ah, ya know, really great and all but yeah. If we ever get the chance to meet, I'd really like to. Cheers, dude.

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my last response, with words of encouragement.

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Kevin, I thank you and appreciate you sharing these things with me.

DIY punk definitely grows from love. Whether it's love for the music, the people, or the concepts/practices, it's all based around love leading to hard work. You work very hard and I think it's a noticeable achievement. I don't claim to know exactly what DIY is or if something is not DIY. I do recognize things I see/hear that move me and know what I want to involve myself with. My thoughts on DIY are constantly being re-sculpted and developed. I recently read an awesome quote that has really reassured me a bit that life is a work in progress. Here it is

"All rules are merely guidelines, and all guidelines are merely suggestions."

You don't have to apologize to anyone for what you do. Do what you wish.

Thanks Kevin,
- Mark

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Spencerhannowsky
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by Spencerhannowsky »

that topshelf guy is a prick

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grievingmass
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by grievingmass »

Holy shit I wish I was a part of this forum when this thread was jumpin off. I recently had to justify my distaste for Topshelf.

CMHWAK>FLOPSHELF
the devil just won't let go.

hcotv.bandcamp.com
deismbirmingham.blogspot.com

plasticsmilerecords
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Re: TOPSHELF RECORDS

Post by plasticsmilerecords »

If you think this thread is cool, you should've heard Alex and I talk shit about topshelf on cmhwak radio.

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